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ScottishRose
Wee Smokie


ScottishRose

Scotland
291 Posts
Last here:
05 Oct 2014
Posted - 27 May 2011 :  10:06:00 PM Show Profile Visit ScottishRose's HomepageSend ScottishRose a Private Message Reply with Quote
They need ALL people who are against it to speak up. Not just parents of children in the two schools, but everyone. Children in all the other Arbroath schools will be affected by this new build, as there are no guarantees that "phase 2" will ever be achieved, leaving some schools in dire need of repair.

The whole thing is just a farce.


Laura xx
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 28 May 2011 :  07:47:11 AM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ScottishRose

They need ALL people who are against it to speak up. Not just parents of children in the two schools, but everyone. Children in all the other Arbroath schools will be affected by this new build, as there are no guarantees that "phase 2" will ever be achieved, leaving some schools in dire need of repair.

The whole thing is just a farce.


I can understand your feelings on this and you want as much support as possible from all of Arbroath.... but, the most important thing is to prove the vast majority of parents in the school area are against "new build".... This is because one basis of Angus Council approving the project is being put forward as only a maximum of 10% local parents are against it and the "silent majority" accept or want the project... If before the date of the next meeting the Action Group can show a vast majority, in the area, against new build the Council can not use that arguement... I have no doubt that other arguements for new build shall be put forward (by some councillors and planning dept.) but a vast majority of affected parents objecting would raise a hurdle that could not easily be ignored.
Every other action should be pursued as well of course..


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
boristhespie
Master Smokie


boristhespie

Arbroath, Scotland
1042 Posts
Last here:
22 Nov 2013
Posted - 28 May 2011 :  11:44:56 AM Show Profile Visit boristhespie's HomepageSend boristhespie a Private Message Reply with Quote
Surely getting parent opinions could be Straight forward.

It seems to me that the council is trying to sell off land to raise funds, hetting rid of green spaces in the process and doing this without consulting the town.

Their first action was to impose a county flag in the county showing utter contempt for the people of Angus. It seems arrogance knows no bounds in Angus Council these days. Thank God they can be gotten rid of next year.

There's a bargaining chip there.


Booooooo!
strawberries
Wee Haggis


1 Posts
Last here:
17 Jun 2011
Posted - 28 May 2011 :  9:54:46 PM Show Profile Visit strawberries's HomepageSend strawberries a Private Message Reply with Quote
Facebook - MUIRFIELD ACTION GROUP

Muirfield Action Group
Pushing on 150 members in just over a week. Anyone who hasn't posted the page on their status page and wants to spread the word then please do...people power!

email MuirfieldAction@hotmail.co.uk - for petition sheets
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 30 May 2011 :  5:44:05 PM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
Unfortunately, from my point of view, the "report" prepared for the Council Meeting to approve the "new build" has been declared and is quite explicit in all its observations and comments... It basically shows that the "new build" is by far the best way to go... It refers to a small minority of parents objecting but it feels that is all it is... It however mentions the Muirfield Action Group as coming to the fore in the latter stages and appears to blame them for "causing trouble".
There were about 600 kids being taught in the two schools but these numbers are said to be dropping rapidly.. last year = 250 Muirfield 350 Timmers.
I still believe there is a large majority of parents who do not want the "new build" but it has to be proved before it is to late... I read that the Council also claim to have written to every parent in February 2011 but did not get anywhere near a majority of objections to "new build".


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 30 May 2011 :  7:25:30 PM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
This an "online" report from the Arbroath Herald
http://www.arbroathherald.co.uk/news/local-headlines/group_opposed_to_plans_to_merge_timmergreens_and_muirfield_primaries_will_submit_petition_to_council_1_1646604

It seems that a disitinct majority of Muirfield parents object... The only knowledge I have about Timmergreens parents is that they are unhappy with state of existing school.... some would prefer an upgrade to existing but a lot prefer new school.

Seems unfair that the only way to make it viable to build a new school is to merge both schools pupils.. If you have read the above Herald report you can see that during this long "consultation period" parents claim it is only now many more "facts" are coming to light enabling them to make a choice.. Apparently the "original" Muirfield parents group did not represent, or did not know of, the deep feeling of many parents... hence the Muirfield Action Group trying to advise the Council of the majority of Muirfield parents feelings and wishes...


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
BigLichtie
Wee Haggis


6 Posts
Last here:
05 Dec 2011
Posted - 31 May 2011 :  2:28:00 PM Show Profile Visit BigLichtie's HomepageSend BigLichtie a Private Message Reply with Quote
Hi,

I'm a member of Muirfield Action Group and would just like to defend our group, if I can. We were formed by parents who were disillusioned by the lack of information given to us on an extremely important issue. The consultation process from the start to the finish has been vague, flawed, misleading and directed in such a manner that the Council only sought the answers they wanted from the people the knew would give them. You would be staggered by the people who HAVEN'T been asked for opinions on very key matters because they wouldn't like the answers.

I personally went to all the public meetings. The first was a farce. It was claimed: 'We may have one new school, we may have two, we may even have three or four? It's for you to decide because we really don't have the answers.' We were asked to fill in a survey to say whether we wanted a new school in Arbroath. I refused and pointed out I would only answer that question if I knew where it was going and what schools would close as a result of a new one.

The second 'consultation' contained NO questions on our form pertaining to refurbishment. Just a very leading: 'The preferred option includes the provision of a new school in the west of Arbroath. Do you agree?'

Whose 'preferred option?' Angus Council's.

Yet, that question leads you to believe that the majority of people want this, so you'd be daft not to agree. Timmergreens and Muirfield were the ONLY schools in Arbroath to be asked this question, yet a few months later and even still NOW the claim is that 'there is a general agreement that there is a need for a new school in the West of Arbroath as the first phase.' I'm quite sure had the parents at the overcrowded schools such as Hayshead and Inverbrothock or Warrdykes where there are problems with heating and a leaky roof been asked this question the answer would have been entirely different and there would have been no 'general agreement.'

On that basis, the need for a new school in the west was made No. 1 priority. The council succeeded in their old trick of giving you one option and making people feel they had played a part in the decision-making exercise.

Then comes the farcical situation where TWO computers - one with 634 response, the other with 62 - are allowed to sabotage the survey deciding where this new school would be situated. Even, if as claimed the Council later took these responses out (which they only did after they were forced to publicly admit their error), Timmergreens was the favoured site for a new build. We are now told Timmergreens isn't suitable for build (by Angus Council) so WHY was it one of the options? Low and behold, who decides where the school goes? The council - to a site where EIGHT people in the survey wanted.

So problem 1:

We are given NO option on refurb by Angus Council, so new school is the only option.

Problem 2: The survey is done, is sabotaged and is ignored and the council choose the site. We are given NO choice on the site of the new school.

Is this consultation?

We had also been misled on several occasions over where the £8 million was coming from. The vast majority, until very recently believed the council had this money 'ring-fenced' and it wasn't a loan. Some thought it was a loan that could only be used for new build. Others were told it was a loan that was supported by government grant.

The facts are: It IS a loan that is NOT supported by government grant that comes directly out of the revenue budget that affects all other services. This £8 million could effectively be spent on any service Angus Council so choose.

Then comes the question of refurb - by far the most popular choice. We're told it is way, way too expensive. We assume the Council has done its homework with detailed analysis, then at our meeting it is revealed all they have done is scribble notes off the top of their head on a piece of scrap paper and magically broken through the £8 million barrier.

Now we have the new Asda. Funny how this idea springs up just as we are nearing the end of the school issue, just when there is very little time for people to realise just how much traffic chaos it is going to add to an already hugely dangerous road. We doubt if the school would even have got this far had this been public earlier.

The real problem here is that the people have not been consulted. They have not been given the facts by Angus Council and have been pushed into answering questions without knowing the alternatives. We have strived hard to try and find information for both ourselves and many parents/ members of the wider community and we have no motive other than providing the best education for our children. We are not a minority group, the amount of parents and others who have been helping from both Muirfield AND Timmergreens is heartening. People care about their children's future and now that they have information the want to act on it. It's very sad it takes a group of parents to give that information that should have been readily in the public domain.

We have no personal or financial gain out of doing what we are doing but we want to see a fair and proper use of a huge amount of money and spending money that leaves nothing for any other schools for the next 'four or five years' (according to their OWN financial documents) is not a proper use of money.
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 31 May 2011 :  6:34:21 PM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
Hi Big lichtie.. I see no reason in you saying you have "to defend" the Muirfield Action Group... as your following advisement of what has happened in the past few months confirms... Good luck to you and your group>

Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 03 Jun 2011 :  6:03:39 PM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
The Arbroath Herald report online can be seen on this link :-
http://www.arbroathherald.co.uk/news/local-headlines/school_consultation_reports_published_1_1658486

Summary of School Inspectorate as follows :-

The proposal from Angus Council to discontinue education provision at Muirfield and Timmergreens Primary School and build a new school adjacent to Hospitalfield House should have a positive impact on childrenís educational experiences.
The current school buildings are in a declining physical state and opportunities to bring them up to an acceptable standard are not viable. Building a new school in West Arbroath is a sensible and positive solution to the councilís phased plans to improve the school estate and manage falling school rolls efficiently and effectively. Purpose-built nursery accommodation will offer an improved resource for young children, while dedicated catering and toilet space for community users will encourage wider use of the premises with increased benefit to all. Overall, however, the council has yet to explain sufficiently clearly how childrenís learning experiences will improve as a result of the proposal, particularly in relation to the building design and the increase in the combined roll at the new school.
The council has taken appropriate steps to examine thoroughly a range of site options and has carried out a detailed analysis of travel-to-school issues. Its case for the proposal is based on a sound technical case. However, parents and carers have understandable concerns about travel arrangements, particularly for children walking to school. The council has made a clear commitment, at the public meeting and in subsequent correspondence, to take all due steps to respond to these concerns. In doing so, it needs to work in close partnership with all parents and carers, children and staff.

HM Inspectorate of Education
May 2011

Looks as if Hmie have been convinced by Angus council.. Lets hope majority of each Schools parents involved get what they want!


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 03 Jun 2011 :  6:48:35 PM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
Schools to merge :- Courier report :-
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Angus/article/14586/arbroath-schools-merger-approved-after-heated-debate.html


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
Derek
Supreme Master Smokie


Arbroath, Scotland
2613 Posts
Last here:
Today
Posted - 03 Jun 2011 :  10:34:04 PM Show ProfileSend Derek a Private Message Reply with Quote
I wonder why the council bothers to go through with surveys and consultations, they seem to make their mind up at the start anyway?
Actually it's a bit like matters that come before the current council when the "Angus Alliance/Rainbow Coalition" get together and decided what the outcome is going to be before they even officially sit down to discuss it.

Usually a big public project like a brand new purpose built school should have people Cock-a-whoop, but it appears not to be the case. Maybe that should be a warning to the councillors that something is deeply wrong with their judgement?
To close and merge two schools whilst at the same time filling in the existing sites with housing, to the detriment of those already living around them, doesn't seem to be that popular.

Derek.
Derek
Supreme Master Smokie


Arbroath, Scotland
2613 Posts
Last here:
Today
Posted - 03 Jun 2011 :  10:46:21 PM Show ProfileSend Derek a Private Message Reply with Quote
I believe the site where the school WILL be built is the triangular brown field at centre.
The schools to be replace with housing are Timmers to the top left and Muirfield at bottom centre.



Derek.
blueblue01
Wee Haggis


Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
16 Jun 2011
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 :  11:22:49 AM Show Profile Visit blueblue01's HomepageSend blueblue01 a Private Message Reply with Quote
Have been reading all these articles with interest. I want the new school, the way children are being taught through "curriculum for excellence" is a different approach and the school does not even if patched up fit the criteria for this to happen. And have any of you walked around timmergreens near the school lately, timmergreens area sadly has gone way down hill in the last five years,the children are going in some day to scattered broken glass and at luchtime have watched cops doing a drugs raid on the surrounding flats. And yeah the westway is bad but so is most of the roads that kids cross how about the dual carriageway to go to ladyloan or the kids that cross the montrose road some to go to wardykkes and some going to Hayshead. Even now timmergreens pupils are crossing Keptie Road and Arbirlot Road which is very congested in the morning. And it has been shown that more people are having to rent because they cant get mortgages so if they regenerate timmergreens and we get affordable (approx £300 per month a house not as quoted) housing then im all for that!

blue1
Geordie
Wee Haggis


Arbroath, Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
27 Mar 2012
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 :  1:55:19 PM Show Profile Visit Geordie's HomepageSend Geordie a Private Message Reply with Quote
Carnoustie has had in recent years 2 new primary schools built, a new high school has also been built albeit on the same ground as the previous one, one other school has been refurbished, so I can,t see what the problem is about building a new one in Arbroath, or is it the fact that it is in the wrong place, it makes more sense to fund one school, than fund two, within 700 yards of one another,
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 :  8:49:55 PM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
Just re-read all the posts on this forum and noted that "postings" started in June 2010, one year ago.. Nice to read that at least two people have indicated they see no problem with a new "school build" as there has been no support at all until they just "posted".. I respect their views.. I just favour the majority who appear to keep being ignored!

Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
blueblue01
Wee Haggis


Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
16 Jun 2011
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 :  10:16:08 PM Show Profile Visit blueblue01's HomepageSend blueblue01 a Private Message Reply with Quote
Im not sure that the majority are against it the difference is that people for havent spoken up because there has been a very proactive against approach of recently and they dont want caught in the cross fire. Whatever the decision on the 22nd everyone has their childs best interests at heart whether thats the road they cross, or the facilities they are taught in.

blue1
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 :  12:34:09 AM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by blueblue01

Im not sure that the majority are against it the difference is that people for havent spoken up because there has been a very proactive against approach of recently and they dont want caught in the cross fire. Whatever the decision on the 22nd everyone has their childs best interests at heart whether thats the road they cross, or the facilities they are taught in.



I can only argue against the minimal amount of information (given to parents) supplied By Angus Council that now appears to have generated a great backlash against proposed plans. If there had been a great majority for the New School then that should have been apparent from the start. In my opinion this has not happened.
However, the same as an election, only count the "votes" of the people that want to be counted.. (that is the ones that vote) If 50% don't vote, then, as usual they are discounted.. they are not a silent majority for the NEW school, the ain't bothered one way or the other.
As you say every parent has the best interests of their child and the outcome should reflect this. My opinion does not count (and should'n't) but I still feel a "New School" build is not the right option for the many reasons given by affected parents. If the eventual outcome leads to a great many Arbroathians/Parents feeling let down then the system has failed them.


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
philip
Senior Smokie


philip

Arbroath, Scotland
613 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2012
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 :  04:56:03 AM Show Profile Visit philip's HomepageSend philip a Private Message Reply with Quote
I stay in hospitalfield but as both my kids are now at high school i dont have an active interest as far as kids welfare is concerned but the one thing that has bothered me is if you take the footprint of both the present schools and compare it to the proposed new site you may be able to build a school on it at a push but what other facilities will it have doesnt look like its big enough for playgrounds or football pitches etc

If you're talking behind my back, you're in a good position to kiss my ass!
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 :  07:27:10 AM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
Good point Phillip... I have read in other "postings" the same misgivings... Opponents have said "there is less than 1/2 a football pitch for the children".... Angus Council has said "There is adequate play/recreational space with an area above six school halls"..
Which ever way it goes some parents shall be disappointed about outcome.. All that can be said is that hopefully only a minority shall be left in this position.
At the last "Council vote" it was passed 12 votes to 6 votes that Muirfield and Timmergreens be amalgamated as one pupil body.. I am, as many more, wondering how the Full Council shall construe the wishes of most parents of both schools as one entity.. Angus council appears to be still adammant that majority of parents want the New School.. As with many more I disagree with their findings mainly due to the basis on which they arrived at that decision.


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
ScottishRose
Wee Smokie


ScottishRose

Scotland
291 Posts
Last here:
05 Oct 2014
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 :  07:37:48 AM Show Profile Visit ScottishRose's HomepageSend ScottishRose a Private Message Reply with Quote
A few parents I've spoken to have said that should the new school go ahead, they will be putting their children into Arbirlot Primary instead.

Laura xx
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