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blueblue01
Wee Haggis


Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
16 Jun 2011
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 :  12:20:58 PM Show Profile Visit blueblue01's HomepageSend blueblue01 a Private Message Reply with Quote
dear Terrymac
with all due respect you have not personally been involved in the consultation process, as you do not live within Arbroath and so I would therefore presume dont have children at either school so where does your information come from? I cannot speak for how the parents at Muirfield have been informed but as a Timmergreens parent I have been given and encouraged from the very beginning to be involved. Angus Council sent out a FAQ yesterday to all parents at Timmergreens dont know about other schools again trying to clarify various points.

I am not naive and know that the council will and can say and do things to their own end however legally they are obliged to follow a specific protocol.

You keep going on that the majority of parents dont want the school how do u know that? There are more children currently attend Timmergreens than Muirfield and from what ive heard there are only two or three timmergreens parents who have spoken out. One whos child wont even be attending the new school!



blue1
Derek
Supreme Master Smokie


Arbroath, Scotland
2546 Posts
Last here:
23 Jul 2014
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 :  2:27:09 PM Show ProfileSend Derek a Private Message Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by philip

... the one thing that has bothered me is if you take the footprint of both the present schools and compare it to the proposed new site you may be able to build a school on it at a push but what other facilities will it have doesnt look like its big enough for playgrounds or football pitches etc



quote:
Originally posted by Terrymac
Good point Phillip... I have read in other "postings" the same misgivings... Opponents have said "there is less than 1/2 a football pitch for the children".... Angus Council has said "There is adequate play/recreational space with an area above six school halls"



This is a very interesting issue.
Where do they plan to hold outdoor events like sports days? Timmergreens in particular is blessed with large playing field provision. It's a step backwards in my opinion having such a small grassed area. It's always in the press that schoolkids currently do not get enough P.E. and the governemnt are aiming to increase this current amount, how can a larger 2 in 1 proposed new school of the future cope with addition numbers outside more often playing sport?

Again, I'm not against a new state fo the art teaching school in principle. I'd prefer two smaller more personal schools to a larger more faceless entity. I really dislike the plan to fund the project with selling off the two school sites to the detriment of those who live around them currently, they didn't choose to live in what will become high a concentration housing scheme.

quote:
Originally posted by blueblue01
I want the new school, the way children are being taught through "curriculum for excellence" is a different approach and the school does not even if patched up fit the criteria for this to happen. And have any of you walked around timmergreens near the school lately, timmergreens area sadly has gone way down hill in the last five years,the children are going in some day to scattered broken glass and at luchtime have watched cops doing a drugs raid on the surrounding flats.


I'm all for better education, if the facilities are top notch then great. However doesn't a good education come down to the quality of the teachers? They are a schools best asset.

Very true, but building a new school wont stop the scourge of heroin abuse, which is in every town and city on the country. Children will continue to see its affects in public whether we like it or not, it's the world we now live in sadly.
The former old peoples flats (by the way there's no such thing now as it's ageist apparently and they're available to all) at the school entrance and flats around newbigging drive all went to hell in a handbasket when the flats at mayfield and the old strathy were emptied for refurbishment. Almost overnight the scum were sent to the large housing stock across town.

quote:
Originally posted by blueblue01
And yeah the westway is bad but so is most of the roads that kids cross...



So although it's bad situation it's ok because there's others comparable to it? I can't agree with that sentiment.

quote:
Originally posted by blueblue01
And it has been shown that more people are having to rent because they cant get mortgages so if they regenerate timmergreens and we get affordable (approx £300 per month a house not as quoted) housing then im all for that!



High house prices are a nationwide issue, homeowners love 'em and those trying to get one hate 'em. You're looking at 25% of a large development being "affordable", do you think this will make any difference to the area? I think it'll be a drop in the ocean.

This is all academic as the new school will be built and the old ones demolished for housing to generate the money. We'll just have to wait and see how it pans out. I really do hope they have thought of everything and we objectors concerns are the result of misinformation and undue concern, because that'll mean it'll all worked out perfect for the new school and pupils. Which I genuinly hope it does.

Derek.
blueblue01
Wee Haggis


Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
16 Jun 2011
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 :  2:42:57 PM Show Profile Visit blueblue01's HomepageSend blueblue01 a Private Message Reply with Quote
And yeah the westway is bad but so is most of the roads that kids cross...



So although it's bad situation it's ok because there's others comparable to it? I can't agree with that sentiment.

I was not as you are implying trying to make out that because others are bad then its ok! The point i am trying to raise is that children everywhere are crossing dangerous roads! If that is most peoples point of objection then they should look outside the box and campaign for boundary changes for all the schools so this doesnt happen.


blue1
Derek
Supreme Master Smokie


Arbroath, Scotland
2546 Posts
Last here:
23 Jul 2014
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 :  3:13:27 PM Show ProfileSend Derek a Private Message Reply with Quote
I see, thanks for clarifying that.

I recall about 8 years ago the council installed (entirely unnecessary) speed bumps along charles ave, newbigging drive, emislaw drive and annfield drive. I hope this means they will be lifted now?.

Derek.
blueblue01
Wee Haggis


Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
16 Jun 2011
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 :  3:40:25 PM Show Profile Visit blueblue01's HomepageSend blueblue01 a Private Message Reply with Quote
Derek I hate the speed bumps and having to get the suspension on my car fixed twice i would put out a flag if they were but they arent just put there because of the school its to slow down traffic in built up area. Blame boy racers for them

blue1
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2217 Posts
Last here:
2 days ago
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 :  4:25:55 PM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by blueblue01

dear Terrymac
with all due respect you have not personally been involved in the consultation process, as you do not live within Arbroath and so I would therefore presume dont have children at either school so where does your information come from? I cannot speak for how the parents at Muirfield have been informed but as a Timmergreens parent I have been given and encouraged from the very beginning to be involved. Angus Council sent out a FAQ yesterday to all parents at Timmergreens dont know about other schools again trying to clarify various points.
I am not naive and know that the council will and can say and do things to their own end however legally they are obliged to follow a specific protocol.
You keep going on that the majority of parents dont want the school how do u know that? There are more children currently attend Timmergreens than Muirfield and from what ive heard there are only two or three timmergreens parents who have spoken out. One whos child wont even be attending the new school!


I have been involved because I want to express my views. I have done so since June 2010. All my conclusions have been based on my information from relatives, friends but mostly what has been reported through various media.
I am a great believer in free speech and democracy. I personally HOPE a great majority of parents don't want to continue with the current strategy and wish that the Council to propose a new one.. My assessment is that there is a large majority of people that are verbal in their views against present Council plans... If I am wrong and there is a greater majority for the New school build "as is", I wish they had been as vocal as you.. Just don't allow them to say "silent majority", that is an insult! If people don't respond it should only be up to the people that do.. Certainly not me!! I have also always asked what Timmergreens parents think and still don't really know apart from your advisement that only one or two are against the proposal.
Forgetting about all the apathy displayed during the "Consultation Period" surely even you should support a reassessment to satisfy the Majority in the end!


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
Derek
Supreme Master Smokie


Arbroath, Scotland
2546 Posts
Last here:
23 Jul 2014
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 :  5:27:50 PM Show ProfileSend Derek a Private Message Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by blueblue01

Derek I hate the speed bumps and having to get the suspension on my car fixed twice i would put out a flag if they were but they arent just put there because of the school its to slow down traffic in built up area. Blame boy racers for them



This is not so blueblue01.
I contacted the council as the speed bumps were being installed. The quick reply (i did not keep unfortunately) stated it was as part of traffic calming the council had decided to introduce around schools in the town. Nothing to do with a problem of speeding cars, just rolled out en masse.

Charles avenue is bus route and there are cars parked on bith sides making it a slow winding road as it is. Furthermore it is not a thoroughfare to anywhere. I don't think these speed bumps slow down traffic anyway, folk just can just accelerate between them or drive between/around them!

As I said before there was no and still is no issue with speeding traffic in the area, these roads aren't main arteries, just housing access.

Derek.
kws4676
Wee Haggis


kws4676

Arbroath, Scotland
2 Posts
Last here:
28 Nov 2012
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 :  6:06:35 PM Show Profile Visit kws4676's HomepageSend kws4676 a Private Message Reply with Quote
Hi

Having read with great interest the various posts on the new school I thought it was time I put my "tuppence worth" in to. I am a parent with 3 children attending Muirfield Primary School and from the first I knew of the proposed new school I have had grave reservations about it. So forget the road safety concerns for a moment and concentrate on the factual information available. From the HMIE Report that was included in the consultation document there is one thing I found really quite disturbing and I quote

"the council has yet to set out sufficiently clearly how its proposed building design will result in specific improvements to learning for children"

The HMIE is an independent body to assess the educational standards of schools and therefore I pay much more attention to them rather than the council. In the consultation document it would appear the council are brushing this under the carpet and I for one would like to see conclusive evidence that either my children’s education standards will remain the same or improve. To me a new building is just like wrapping paper and serves absolutely no purpose in a child’s education it is the teachers that matter. The standard of my children's experience and education at Muirfield Primary School has been exemplary and I'm quite sure Timmergreens Pupils receive the same dedication as ours in the smaller school setting. I just want to know how the council intend to improve my kids’ education in a building and playing field that inevitably will be cramped and also watch them turn into a pupil number on a computer!!
blueblue01
Wee Haggis


Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
16 Jun 2011
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 :  9:09:06 PM Show Profile Visit blueblue01's HomepageSend blueblue01 a Private Message Reply with Quote
terrymac As with all aspects of life not everyone wants to get on their soap box and voice an opinion like you or I and that should be respected as well. People have had their opportunity to express their opinion so now its down to the councillors then the scottish exec.

blue1
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2217 Posts
Last here:
2 days ago
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 :  10:52:25 PM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by blueblue01

terrymac As with all aspects of life not everyone wants to get on their soap box and voice an opinion like you or I and that should be respected as well. People have had their opportunity to express their opinion so now its down to the councillors then the scottish exec.


I agree with your first statement and I do respect their right to keep their views private.. But when a Councillor claims that he has to take account of the "silent majority" claiming it indicates most parents accept or support a New School Build, this is just patently wrong..

I totally disagree with your claim "people have had their opportunity to express their opinion".. This is just not true.. hence the formation of an Action Group to present their views.. Also some councillors agree that the consultation was flawed..
It is down to the Councillors now but they should continue to be made aware of Arbroathians concerns especially by the parents (for or against).
Public feeling succesfully makes the current Government/Councils re-analyse many plans.



Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
blueblue01
Wee Haggis


Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
16 Jun 2011
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 :  11:31:25 PM Show Profile Visit blueblue01's HomepageSend blueblue01 a Private Message Reply with Quote
We could go back and forward debating various issues as a parent at timmergreens and one of the silent majority i feel i have been consulted and represented in my views had the im sorry if parents at muirfield have not had the same courtesy. Every one is entitled do as they see fit either as an individual or as a group. I think realistically it has to be accepted on the 22nd it will either go forward to the scottish exec or be abandoned they wont restart the consultation process for this project.

blue1
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2217 Posts
Last here:
2 days ago
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 :  12:28:36 AM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
If anyone believes that a Council decison was wrongly made due to any service failure, e.g. consultation, then the H.M. Inspectorate of Education Agency maintains a complaints and appeals procedure.
The activities of HMIE are subject to investigation by the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman (SPSO) who will deal directly with the Chief Executive on any complaint received by the SPSO which she decides to pursue.
The function of the SPSO is to consider complaints from members of the public of injustice or hardship arising from maladministration or service failure on the part of any Scottish Public Authorities.


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
blueblue01
Wee Haggis


Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
16 Jun 2011
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 :  08:12:00 AM Show Profile Visit blueblue01's HomepageSend blueblue01 a Private Message Reply with Quote
Terrmac just to make quite clear to u my comment was not instructing u to leave it to councillors and scottish exec was expressing an opinion. It appears all you are doing in scottish terms in "STEERING FOLK UP by putting these comments to that effect on facebook. as I have said everyone is entitled to their opinion. This is a very sensitive issue and people behaving like this just make things worse!

blue1
blueblue01
Wee Haggis


Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
16 Jun 2011
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 :  08:16:08 AM Show Profile Visit blueblue01's HomepageSend blueblue01 a Private Message Reply with Quote
People like u are the reason that timmergreens parents remain silent

disgusted!


blue1
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2217 Posts
Last here:
2 days ago
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 :  09:31:59 AM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by blueblue01

as a parent at timmergreens and one of the silent majority i feel i have been consulted and represented in my views had the im sorry if parents at muirfield have not had the same courtesy. Every one is entitled do as they see fit either as an individual or as a group.



To insist there is a silent majority to further a project is not a basis to let councillors form a correct decision.
You don't even believe in your statement "Everyone is entitled ....etc."

Similarly Disgusted !! I shall continue to air my views to find out what it is really wanted !!


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
blueblue01
Wee Haggis


Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
16 Jun 2011
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 :  11:00:59 AM Show Profile Visit blueblue01's HomepageSend blueblue01 a Private Message Reply with Quote
You have only as i have read through here and your similar posts on facebook taken one side and thats the side that has been vocal. If someone else has a conflicting opinion ie me you rip it to bits. so dont pretend to be objective and want to know peoples thoughts on it.

blue1
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2217 Posts
Last here:
2 days ago
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 :  11:46:57 AM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by blueblue01

You have only as i have read through here and your similar posts on facebook taken one side and thats the side that has been vocal. If someone else has a conflicting opinion ie me you rip it to bits. so dont pretend to be objective and want to know peoples thoughts on it.


I take time to decide which side I take on any discussion/topic and present my views accordingley.. I don't waver until I am proved wrong.. and when a majority proves me wrong I support it or gracefully surrender.
I am in support of "NO BUILD" and The Muirfield Action Group therefore I present arguements in support..
I DO respect your views because I want to get a fuller picture ...
I am not neutral and don't pretend to be...
I don't pretend to be objective.. I am.. all information I have gathered to leads me to the conclusion New School Build is still a great mistake, not only for Muirfield but for Arbroath in general! You may find that objectionable. I am sorry.
We are on opposite sides ... Instead of attacking me, present your arguements for a New School Build!


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
blueblue01
Wee Haggis


Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
16 Jun 2011
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 :  12:11:45 PM Show Profile Visit blueblue01's HomepageSend blueblue01 a Private Message Reply with Quote
I was not attacking you but was disappointed to read your comment on muirfild page claiming that you have been virtually told to leave it to councillors/scottish exec that in fact was not what was said, and to that end that is why i feel that anyone who has an opinion different from yours you will misconstrue to your own ends. I understand and respect Muirfield action groups position to fight for their childrens right as I as parent have the right to do whether collectively or as an individual. I was pleased to read that Muirfield action group have the same sentiment. I am a young mother with children who's family have lived in this town for generations and I feel I have more of a right to make a decision on my and future generations children than u do. I have official documentation you have hearsay, I have no need to justify to the reasons for the new school.

blue1
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2217 Posts
Last here:
2 days ago
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 :  12:27:10 PM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
Fine Blue 1.. Lets agree to disagree..
I appear to have misconstrued your comment.. It appeared to me you wanted it left in hands of Councillors and then Scottish Exec. and no other comments were required.. I apologise without reservation.
I shall, in all ways, continue to present reasons to Angus council, Local Councillors, Scottish Exec why a New School is wrong for the parents affected and Arbroath as a whole.... As indeed Councillors and the Supporters of New Build shall be doing the opposite to prove the merits outweigh the problems.


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2217 Posts
Last here:
2 days ago
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 :  3:09:24 PM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
A revelation from the Muirfield Action Group :-
Survey Reports by Angus Council in September 2009 showing costs for "refurbishment".

Muirfield School £528,900.00
Timmergreens School £774,000.00
Ladyloan School £416,100.00
Inverbrothock £76,000.00
Wardykes School £835,000.00

Approximately £3.25 million in total... now allowing 50% more, say £1.75 million for extra works (as time has passed) plus inflation gives £5 million pounds... £3 million cheaper than one new school and a lot more Parents and Arbroathians happier!! (only my opinion of course)


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
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