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blueblue01
Wee Haggis


Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
16 Jun 2011
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 :  5:16:30 PM Show Profile Visit blueblue01's HomepageSend blueblue01 a Private Message Reply with Quote
Only comment in the refurbishment comes out of a different budget and so they wouldnt have all that money available to do it all at one time

blue1
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 :  6:42:49 PM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
It appears refurbishment is not an option anyway.. This had already been discussed/considered during the consultation period and discounted as an option.. It meant either Timmergreens or Muirfield School would have had to close... The projected pupil numbers in the future requires only one school in the area.

Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
blueblue01
Wee Haggis


Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
16 Jun 2011
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 :  6:48:10 PM Show Profile Visit blueblue01's HomepageSend blueblue01 a Private Message Reply with Quote
to be honest one of my reasons for wanting the new school is because there are falling numbers at both schools which has resulted in a increase in composite classes. Putting aside the argument about the new school to be fair we are all having to tighten our belts at the moment and it doesnt make sense to be paying for two head teachers etc in schools that are not at capacity in such a close proximity to each other. However i will say there are two other schools that could have merged without the road safety issue!

blue1
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 16 Jun 2011 :  8:14:46 PM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
We have all speculated why Angus Council had decided to build a new school instead of refurbishing the existing schools…… From the comments on this forum (since 2010 when the thread was started) there appears to have been a general consensus that a New School Build was not the answer.
There has been a lot of ”info and faqs” released by Angus Council lately to clarify the situation. Also Muirfield Action Group have displayed some” Facts and Council reports” on their Facebook page. The following 8 points below are from the Council.
1) The Council cost for “refurb “ of both Muirfield and Timmergreens was assessed at £8.4 million.
2) The Council cost for New Build was assessed at £8 million and was reported as being cheaper than refurbishment.
3) Due to falling pupil numbers it is not feasible to keep two schools open that have empty class rooms/space and the resultant larger running costs for two schools.
4) The council has passed a motion to combine Timmergreens and Muirfield pupils.
5) The Council say if they were to consider “refurb” they would have to focus on only one school and combine all pupils to that school on completion.
6) It was assessed Muirfields could be refurbished and be suitable for purpose in the long term.
7) Unfortunately Timmergreens was assessed not suitable for purpose in the long term.
8) Due to falling pupil numbers only 400 are assessed as being in the cachement area from 2013.

My point being if it is £8.4 million for the “refurb” of both schools It is fair to assess that one school “refurb” would cost £4.2 million. In the case of Muirfield two classrooms could be added to achieve required area… very much like Ladyloan School which has same design/build with two classrooms having been added recently.. Say additional cost £800,000.00 for these classrooms…. Giving a total cost of £5 million …. a saving of £3 million on New Build.
This option does not appear to have been costed and put forward to be considered. From a financial point this a good option but it transfers problem of Timmergreens pupils having to cross Westway… However in the case of the New Build option the Council claim that this is not a problem and can easily be dealt with.



Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
blueblue01
Wee Haggis


Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
16 Jun 2011
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 :  09:06:22 AM Show Profile Visit blueblue01's HomepageSend blueblue01 a Private Message Reply with Quote
In relation to your post there isnt just the issue of timmers kids crossing the westway, should muirfield be upgraded. With current catchment area for timmers some children would be walking a fair distance to get to muirfield school, and even if they changed catchment areas this would still be the case plus it would put an added pressure onto ladyloan/inverbrothock which from what ive heard inverbrothock in particular is full, and has the potential for more new housing within the area. Plus personally I dont think the children (mine dont) would like being moved into muirfield school where they are thinking of the new school as a new adventure.

blue1
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 :  11:27:36 AM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
Hi Blue 1
1) Muirfield is 100yds as crow flys from proposed New School site on the other side of Westway. Not a great extra distance to walk at all.
2) Initial design of Muirfield puts total capacity at 430+. Addittion of two classrooms (like Ladyloan) gives it extra capacity. No capacity problems.
3) Refurbishment means it would effectively be a "New school" for all anyway. It shall give an equivalent high standard of education equal to a new school but with a financial saving of £3 million minimum.
4) If I was a Timmergreens school parent I don't think I would have been happy about that proposal either but financially it is a good option.
5) There is a strong possibility (in the future) the "New Build" shall not be able to cater for all children in the new Timmergreen/Muirfield catchment area. There is no room for future "classroom add" without loosing the very small amount of recreational area planned. Some children shall have to go to other schools.

I believe that the councillors now have as much information to make their decision on the 22nd..
I also believe that you and I agree on one thing.. whatever the decision, some parents and arbroathians shall be dissappointed.


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 23 Jun 2011 :  12:07:27 AM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
New School Build to go ahead... Full Angus Coucil voted with a majority of two to pass proposal.. Although I was totally against a New Build I believe all objections were noted and the vote is democracy in action.. Maybe Scottish Exec. won't support decision but I cannot see why they should not.sad

Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
BigLichtie
Wee Haggis


6 Posts
Last here:
05 Dec 2011
Posted - 28 Jun 2011 :  9:28:03 PM Show Profile Visit BigLichtie's HomepageSend BigLichtie a Private Message Reply with Quote
Don't think this one is over yet. Council may have made their decision - though it was very close at 15-13 - but government still has a big say. SOMEONE will have commonsense over this idea, surely.

The bottom line is the new building won't teach kids, the teachers will and with more kids and less space this can hardly be classed as an 'educational benefit.' Two football teams become one = less kids have opportunity at sport. Educational benefit?
Geordie
Wee Haggis


Arbroath, Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
27 Mar 2012
Posted - 30 Jun 2011 :  6:28:41 PM Show Profile Visit Geordie's HomepageSend Geordie a Private Message Reply with Quote
Arbirlot school is,nt big enough, are they going to drive the kids out there every day, if they are working who is going to pick them up,
Geordie
Wee Haggis


Arbroath, Scotland
14 Posts
Last here:
27 Mar 2012
Posted - 30 Jun 2011 :  6:37:37 PM Show Profile Visit Geordie's HomepageSend Geordie a Private Message Reply with Quote
There are arguments for, and arguments against a new build, and it,s been good reading peoples opinions, but whether we like it or not it is going to go ahead, sad, but it will be pushed through.
ScottishRose
Wee Smokie


ScottishRose

Scotland
291 Posts
Last here:
05 Oct 2014
Posted - 30 Jun 2011 :  8:26:30 PM Show Profile Visit ScottishRose's HomepageSend ScottishRose a Private Message Reply with Quote
I live in town and make the trip out to Arbirlot Primary every day surprise If they are working, who picks them up anyway?! Lol! It's definitely worth it, its a brilliant school.

I'm still living in hope that the merger doesn't go ahead at wits end


Laura xx
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 01 Jul 2011 :  12:06:06 AM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
I am totally against the "new build", as most people that have read my posts know.. To my mind it would be far better to have the two schools "upgraded" which would satisfy the majority of parents (and Arbroathians)... and this could be achieved at a similar cost (or less)..
The "new build" is an unknown for the future.. Don't mess with what works!!!!..
If people disagree at least give the parents a choice..... instead of...... Consultation = "This is what we are doing, any objections? any comments?"
Still, it must be said that the "new build" proposal has been passed by a majority and I respect this....
I also respect the rights of all people to object or concur with the Council decision to a higher authority.


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 02 Jul 2011 :  08:17:43 AM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
The local MSP for Angus has shown his support for the concerned parents about merger of Timmergreens/Muirfield schools and the "new build"... He is reported as saying that he is writing to the Education Secretary asking that he seriously investigates the decision to proceed...
Ultimately, though, the Education Minister will decide whether or not this new school is the best way forward for the children and we await his decision with interest.


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 10 Jul 2011 :  12:54:49 AM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
Muirfield Action Group have just posted, on their facebook page, an Angus Council Road Departments report, gained through "Fredoom of Information", that categorically states that "massive" problems would be incurred if "the new build school" is sited where it is proposed... Danger to cyclists, danger to "drop off" cars, danger to children, traffic congestion, large increases of traffic expected over next few years, etc, etc,.
After reading the report, and if this is the only one, I cannot understand why anyone (Cllrs. included) would ignore it and press forward to have the proposed "New build". I am convinced now that our Angus Council has made a real big mistake in voting for the proposal..
Over the years we put our trust in our elected officials and we rely heavily on them making the right decisions for our benefit.. We also have to live with the ones that they get wrong... Lets hope this is not one of the "wrong decisions".


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
BigLichtie
Wee Haggis


6 Posts
Last here:
05 Dec 2011
Posted - 10 Jul 2011 :  2:27:59 PM Show Profile Visit BigLichtie's HomepageSend BigLichtie a Private Message Reply with Quote
You can argue the merits of merging these schools all day long. Personally, I think no matter where the school would be cited lumping potentially 500 kids plus 80 nursery kids into one small sites is a dreadful idea - but that is a matter of opinion.

What surely should not be up for debate is the proposed site for the school. Anyone who reads what Angus Council Roads Division have e-mailed to the Education Department about this must now realise that it's not just a bunch of 'over-anxious' parents who are concerned about their kids. This is reality. The experts don't think it's safe, so WHY are they ignoring expert advice? We can only hope the Education Minister listens.

As there is no solution to merge the schools that avoids several hundred kids crossing the Westway, then we have to accept these schools CAN'T be merged. No young life should be put at risk to get an education and the decision to build a school wouldn't sit any easier with me had the choice been to build at Arbirlot Road West because 200+ Timmergreens kids would be then at risk.
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 10 Jul 2011 :  6:19:14 PM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
My views exactly BigLichtie... all as my post 01 June 2011.

Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
BigLichtie
Wee Haggis


6 Posts
Last here:
05 Dec 2011
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 :  1:52:17 PM Show Profile Visit BigLichtie's HomepageSend BigLichtie a Private Message Reply with Quote
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Angus/article/15605/muirfield-action-group-claims-emails-show-angus-council-ignored-own-road-safety-expert-s-advice.html

Worth a read. Full e-mail the article refers to on the Muirfield Action Group Facebook page.
Terrymac
Master Smokie


Terrymac

United Kingdom
2255 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2014
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 :  4:10:10 PM Show Profile Visit Terrymac's HomepageSend Terrymac a Private Message Reply with Quote
BigLichtie the Courier Article shows what Muirfield parents have always said.. The new proposed site for a school is unsafe...Angus Council produced a report showing problems that confirm this, then a second report is asked for (by education committee/convener committee?) by another body that appeared not to have full local knowledge or facts and tried to compare it with schools (within Angus) that have no where near the problems of Westway but just have volumes of traffic!!!
From the limited information I have I can see no way a "new build" should have been approved, I say limited because more and more information has become available and appears not to have been included in information given to Councillors to make a decision.
Let us hope the Educations Ministers Office has all the facts now!!!


Terrymac
I have only one voice but I still strive to make a difference.
philip
Senior Smokie


philip

Arbroath, Scotland
613 Posts
Last here:
12 Oct 2012
Posted - 13 Jul 2011 :  03:19:53 AM Show Profile Visit philip's HomepageSend philip a Private Message Reply with Quote
Right i have followed this topic with great interest and have thought long hard about resolutions to the problems.SO HERE ARE MY THOUGHTS.

Radical new idea that may or may not get the blood boiling but it makes perfect sense.

Why just have one new school to replace two if the problem with the entire stock of schools within Arbroath is dwindling numbers and costly refurbishment why not sell all 7 schools and build two new large super primary schools an East and a West primary and set up an excellent bus system free for all pupils within the age range that parents are worried most about primary 1-4(after all they should be learning to cope with everyday issues like crossing roads safely anyway).It makes sense as thats exactly what we do in this town when they reach Seconday age.And as for the old schools identities just split the pupil population into house names like Ladyloan,timmers,muirfield,inver for west and st tams ,haysie and wardykkes for the east.The upkeep and budget controls would be much easier to maintain and the sale of all these schools plus external finance should also be able to finance individual sports centres attached to these schools and in some ways bring the younger generation of this town closer together.
RIGHT FIRE AWAY I HAVE ATARGET ON MY HEAD LOL


If you're talking behind my back, you're in a good position to kiss my ass!
ScottishRose
Wee Smokie


ScottishRose

Scotland
291 Posts
Last here:
05 Oct 2014
Posted - 13 Jul 2011 :  07:49:45 AM Show Profile Visit ScottishRose's HomepageSend ScottishRose a Private Message Reply with Quote
Ok..... I don't like it tongue

The reason I wanted to put my daughter into a small school was because she was so incredibly shy. If I'd put her into her catchment school, she'd have got lost. Never had the chance to build confidence or a strong personality. She went to Nursery at Arbirlot with 5 other children and came on in leaps and bounds. She moved up to school last year aged 4.5 as the school agreed that she was more than ready to cope emotionally with school life. Now, she's just finished Primary 1 and her school report came back saying she's a completely different child from the one that started last year. She's become a leader, she's on the Pupil Council, she had a brilliant part in the Christmas pantomime, she sings and dances with everyone and is so confident and outgoing. If I'd put her into a town school, she'd have faded into the background. So for all those reasons I am totally against Superschools. Class sizes are too big as they are without making them bigger. At secondary school level the children are better equipped emotionally to survive in large groups winking


Laura xx
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