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DavidMaster Smokie  Arbroath, Scotland4215 Posts
Last here:
Today |  Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 6:47:29 PM   
I see that the Voigt Partnership are proposing improvements to Erskine Chruch in Commerce Street - they already use a section of the church for their own offices, but the rest of the building has been out of use for some time.
If they get the green light, the main church hall will be turned into office space, while the former Guild Rooms where Voigt is currently located would be turned into a two-floor wine bar.
Sounds like a good idea to me!
Full story in The Courier here - http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Angus/article/2556/bistro-future-for-arbroath-s-erskine-church.html
David Spink
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DerekSupreme Master Smokie Arbroath, Scotland1620 Posts
Last here:
Yesterday | Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 03:52:23 AM
The best of luck to them.
Any investment in the town is good news.
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well, I have others.
-- Groucho Marx |
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TimeshiftWee Smokie  Arbroath, Scotland207 Posts
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16 Aug 2010 | Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 10:29:17 AM
Good to hear someone is thinking and proposing investment, in what I regard as a building with history and character, lest the town loses another to urban decay, sic: the Elms and others, good for them and the Town.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Bob
"I’m going off to find myself. If I’m not back by the time I return, keep me here." |
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Smokie1756Senior Smokie  Scotland455 Posts
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23 Aug 2010 | Posted - 15 Jul 2010 : 8:09:12 PM
Might get turned down on over provision of licenced premises as you have 4 pubs within 100 yds
Smokie1756 |
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PlanterMaster Smokie USA1064 Posts
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Yesterday | Posted - 15 Jul 2010 : 8:39:05 PM
Surely let the market decide which pub should survive, no? Does the local government know better than patrons which pubs to support by preventing new applicants from competing? Or is the concern that if there's a fifth pub the number of patrons coming to that area for an ale will somehow increase and cause congestion? If so, from where would these people be drawn?
Planter
For, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. |
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DerekSupreme Master SmokieArbroath, Scotland1620 Posts
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Yesterday | Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 12:54:04 AM
It shouldn't be a problem as there was the sports bar beside spoons that's now shut?
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well, I have others.
-- Groucho Marx |
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Smokie1756Senior SmokieScotland455 Posts
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23 Aug 2010 | Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 8:56:59 PM
Wonder why it shut??? It could lead to objections from Community Council, Police, residents etc. Im only quoting what licensing regulations state.
Smokie1756 |
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PlanterMaster SmokieUSA1064 Posts
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Yesterday | Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 9:05:41 PM
If I had to guess why it shut it would be that the income did not support the business...
Planter
For, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. |
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Smokie1756Senior SmokieScotland455 Posts
Last here:
23 Aug 2010 | Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 9:27:28 PM
Thats right and I think thats what will happen again. Arbroath is probably at saturation point with pubs, restaurants etc at the moment that could sustain a living. What it needs is an hotel - no question and that in itself will generate business. The toon could NOT sustain another pub/restaurant/bistro at the moment. If you extend the boundary to 500 yds you would have 3 places directly in competition for food business after the initial honeymoon period was over and that would be the new place, lets call it The Erskine Bistro, Spoons, Ogstons and the Brewhoose. On the drinking side it would be those three PLUS The Central, The Fishermans, the pub in Kirk Sq, Clouds, The Commercial, St Tams and The Lorne. It would not be able to last for more than 10 years, if that. And it will probaly get knocked back. If it doesnt then we will have another building deteriorating in 5-10 years.
Sorry to be so negative but I work in catering and know it could not survive.
Smokie1756 |
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PlanterMaster SmokieUSA1064 Posts
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Yesterday | Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 2:46:31 PM
But I am not disagreeing with you Smokie1756. What I am saying is let the public decide which business succeeds and which fails. I am sure the town cannot sustain all businesses, but don't let government decide which business should try and which should not. If the folks who want to create the wine bar have done the market research and are confident that the differentiation they can offer punters (and that there is indeed a market for their service) will help them compete, then let them risk their money and reap the rewards or otherwise.
Planter
For, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. |
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Smokie1756Senior SmokieScotland455 Posts
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23 Aug 2010 | Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 1:58:44 PM
Have they done market research though? Who says the toon should have a wine bar? Lets see the market research and who did it.
The Govt does decide which type of business are approved via Planning Committee, Licensing Board, Police etc. Also the local Community Council is listened to at Board Meetings and an impassioned plea by them can lead to refusal to grant a Provisional Licence. Ive seen it happen. I dont mean to seem a killjoy but the town is satuarated with licenced premises. I remember when Arbroath had 42 pubs and how many many left now? It had a higher per capita ratio than Dundee. I do not think it would last 10 years. But I would love to be proved wrong.
Smokie1756 |
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PlanterMaster SmokieUSA1064 Posts
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Yesterday | Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 2:02:07 PM
"Have they done market research though?" Well if they haven't they deserve to fail.
And everything you wrote is true. I just don't agree with government having that much power over businesses.
Planter
For, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. |
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DerekSupreme Master SmokieArbroath, Scotland1620 Posts
Last here:
Yesterday | Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 7:00:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Planter
I just don't agree with government having that much power over businesses.
Planter
Like the Trump fiasco when the government stepped in to change a planning decision when the process (correctly and lengthily followed) didn't provide the result the polititians desired?
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well, I have others.
-- Groucho Marx |
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GaryTSenior Smokie United Kingdom998 Posts
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18 Aug 2010 | Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 10:38:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Derek
quote:
Originally posted by Planter
I just don't agree with government having that much power over businesses.
Planter
Like the Trump fiasco when the government stepped in to change a planning decision when the process (correctly and lengthily followed) didn't provide the result the polititians desired?
Don't understand your attitude.
Billionaire looks to invest and create jobs.
Typical in-bred attitude, not in my back yard etc  Is it any wonder people look at Arbroath with disdain now.
Take a walk down the High Street, maybe be more outward thinking, the world does not revolve around Arbroath.
GT |
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PlanterMaster SmokieUSA1064 Posts
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Yesterday | Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 03:52:27 AM
"Like the Trump fiasco when the government stepped in to change a planning decision when the process (correctly and lengthily followed) didn't provide the result the polititians desired?"
I don't know much about this situation, but are you saying that polititians [sic] are not the same government that stepped in? Sorry are there two governments involved here?
Planter
For, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. |
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Smokie1756Senior SmokieScotland455 Posts
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23 Aug 2010 | Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 3:26:12 PM
The Licensing regulations changed 2 yrs ago as SNP Scottish Govt was concerned about alcohol abuse and wished to reduce alcohol consumption and alcohol related crime, ilness etc etc. The also hiked the cost of licences to be related to turnover leading to many pubs not applying for new Premises Licence as it was too costly and they closed particularly in West of Scotland. They also introduced revised legislation on opening hours, fire precautions act, kids in premises and too many others to remember. They also stopped drinks promos such as 2 for 1, happy hours etc to reduce bevvy consumption. It has led to reduction in alcohol related crime. This is ongoing and next in line is banning drinks such as Buckfast which is VERY popular across Scotland for ppl with alcohol problems. The highest sales in the WORLD of Buckfast is in Coatbridge/Airdrie area. They also introduced Personal Licences for staff serving alcohol although this had been costly for businesses who, as long as they train staff and document it can get round the law. The Personal Licence course I went on cost £125 plus VAT and you really need this when you are in management. A few years ago if I remember there were objections to the Sports Bar next to Spoons being granted a licence but it was granted and now its closed. With regards to let the public decide, we only have 1 hotel in the town. But I dont think the town could sustain another hotel due to economic climate, visitor nos to the town etc unless it was a budget type group such has already been suggested in another forum on here. The other problems are that we dont have facilities for holiday makers that we had in 50s - 80s such as Pool, Baths etc to sustain nos. I would love to know what Ogstons Hotels occupancy % is and if he is reducing rates via Laterooms etc to entice visitors to his hotel. His costs are competitive for hotels but not B&Bs and if for example Travel Lodge built an hotel at The Westway then their price would be approx £29 - could Ogstons survive that? I doubt it. There is one rating on Trip Advisor which ranks it quite low in comparison to other B&Bs and it was done at the beginning of this month.
We will just have to wait till Planning Committee meet and decide as they will have to approve before Licencing Board hear the application.
Smokie1756 |
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DerekSupreme Master SmokieArbroath, Scotland1620 Posts
Last here:
Yesterday | Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 7:18:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by GaryT
Typical in-bred attitude
Gary, what did I say that was so wrong? Do you really wish to insult me?
Planter, Yes. The local authority, in this case Aberdeenshire, are responsible for approving planning permission for building projects.
As is the normal process the council infrastructure services committee voted on it, in this case against. It was very quickly called in by the Scottish Government claiming it was of national importance and too big for the council to decide upon.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/7146632.stm
Smokie, I'm aware of some of the new licensed premesis regulation you mention, there have been enormous changes in recent years. Mostly for the good I think.
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well, I have others.
-- Groucho Marx |
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PlanterMaster SmokieUSA1064 Posts
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Yesterday | Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 8:00:13 PM
The Trump situation looks like party politics to me and nothing to do with getting a business up and running.
As for the government deciding what is best for punters' health etc, then ban alcohol completely and that will reduce alcohol related crime to zero! I can't even find Buckfast over here so I guess that's why the highest sales in the world might be where it is produced....anyway, good give and take on the subject folks, good luck with the government continuing to look out for you and ensuring they do what they know is good for you, because of course, they know better....
Planter
For, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. |
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DerekSupreme Master SmokieArbroath, Scotland1620 Posts
Last here:
Yesterday | Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 8:18:01 PM
Buckfast Tonic Wine is an English product as it happens, but they don't seem to love it quite as much as our Scottish neds do 
Planter I'll be in the USA in a few weeks visiting family, I think the drink laws there are more severe than ours if memory serves?
In order to adhere to the licensing laws there we were forced to hire a policeman to sit in a corner of the wedding reception because minors would be present where acohol was being served, wowsers 
I do enjoy the USA and Canada for the record, as well as the people there. I met a great guy at the weekend from Georgia who was across for the golf.
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well, I have others.
-- Groucho Marx |
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TerrymacMaster Smokie United Kingdom1116 Posts
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3 days ago | Posted - 21 Jul 2010 : 4:39:26 PM
Any business started in Arbroath (legal ones of course) should be welcomed with open arms... They are the main contributors to the potential wealth/economy of the area....
However, I am a "nimby" (not in my back yard) person myself so this often leads me to contradict myself when it potentially affects me... Human nature I suppose.
In this instance I agree with everyone!! |
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MarcolHaggis Supper 64 Posts
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2 days ago | Posted - 22 Jul 2010 : 3:14:39 PM
Was in Arbroath today and had a look at Erskine Church it is in a sorry state, I hope something is done to save it. On a lighter note does anyone remember the little china shop that was next door to it. Where was it, in the bank wall or at the back entrance to the bank.
Maybe Flintstone or Ex-Braemar will know. |
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New development for Erskine Church
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